By I.M. Ulysses.
This is a reply to Jesse Pagan on my a thread on the Equality House, pro-gay page on Facebook. I've add "and holy" in my reply here, created some paragraph breaks, as well as corrected the spelling in this version. Jesse's letter is below, in italics.
Reply To Jesse:
Sin pre-existing the Garden and yes in a mysterious way man's fall was ordained. We cannot truly know all the deep reasons set by God for His purposes. But before you condemn God for setting up a not win scenario please remember that He also sent His own Son to pay the penalty for sin. How does this make Him some kind of cosmic "abuser?" He could as easily condemned ALL mankind to damnation but chose, instead, to show mercy in that He Himself paid the penalty for sin, suffering physically and horribly that He may also redeem what was lost?
In this we see the glory of God not an "abuser" as per your false definition. It helps if you think of it in this way.
1) God is sovereign and holy
2) God is a Creator
3) God is just
4) God is merciful
5) God is all powerful
As a sovereign (and holy) God He has the right to do as He wills not as we like or expect Him to. We have no more right to exist than a piece of porcelain has to complain to us if we use some for fine China and others for a toilet. Both serve the purpose for which they were created and both reflect the sovereign will of the creator. Nuff said.
As a Creator God created all things for His purpose and glory. He even created evil because, like the toilet, it serves His purpose. Without evil, without darkness and death, the glory of "good" and of light and of life cannot be understood by the creation, the same way you could not know how remarkable you are or how flawed you are without the comparative opposite. Moreover if God is a creator does it not behoove a creator to make all things in creation, including even those things which are vile and wrong? It's a mystery, again, that He should do so but clearly, again, evil (as an idea) was also deemed necessary by God to be brought into His creation and for His sovereign purpose even if we do not know fully why.
As a Just God the Lord as a right to condemn and to save in accordance with His (not our) standards. Having brought evil into the universe He also judged it. He made a display of it before creation even so that all in creation may likewise see that this creation, this idea, is flawed for it seeks to steal and destroy all that God truly stands for, among them light and truth and love and life. Mankind was not a flawed creation for choosing the evil fruit else there would be no redemption possible for him. It was the devil that is and was flawed, for he was designed to manifest all that evil represents. This is why he was likewise in the Garden, that God might use him to reveal the utter consequence of sin when it is fully manifested. Having, therefore, manifest the nature of evil God, in turn, decided to manifest justice. But justice alone is not sufficient to understanding God. As a sovereign, holy God and creator He also determined to reveal the other aspect of Good, of Himself, really, which is mercy.
As a merciful God He has the power and the right to forgive sins and evil. Mercy is an attribute of Love and God reveals that He is love in that, though he had every right to destroy his creation when evil was manifest He chose to redeem it. In this way all creation may see His work, that it is not a lie, that the consequences of evil are dire, and why the very idea of evil, though created by God, is antithetical to good design and purpose of His other qualities. I this we know God fully, same as we know our parents in that they both loved and punished us who they created, not ( if they were good parents ) to torture us for their pleasure (for that would make them no better than rapists) but to teach us that we may be better stewards of the world they wished to leave for us. How much less can we say of God, who gave us His universe that we may dwell in it with Him and know Him better? How much more can we know and love God better? Indeed the angels rejoiced when Jesus was born because it signified the birth of mercy, the final atonement for mankind's sin that the creator Himself determined to pay the penalty of so that we can see our creator as both just and merciful and sovereign. For without justice there can be no mercy and without mercy then His creation is irredeemable and that makes God's work a fraud.
As a powerful God He brought all these things together for and by His will. You and I do not have to exist but He does for He preexisted us all. We are here at His pleasure, not he at ours. He is sovereign and holy not us. Can we make ourselves holy? If so, why couldn't Adam prevent his fall? Why could he not redeem himself apart from God? You foolishly call the destroyer and perverted of mankind a "protagonist" But a protagonist for what? All he does is corrupt and destroy for that is what he was designed for. The devil cannot make one holy any more than you can drink sand to satisfy your thirst. He didn't die on a cross to redeem mankind nor make available the mercy and love found at Calvary. He is a tool, designed to manifest the idea and consequences of evil and when God determines that the appointed time has come, both the devil and evil itself will not be wiped out of existence (God is a creator) but face HIS divine wrath and judgement forever...suffering for causing suffering and trying to destroy what He has made for His purposes.
You might think it unfair that this should be so. But you only say that because you exist at all and you, nor I, have a right to exist. It is only through God's pleasure that we do, so remember that and everything else before you accuse God and manifest the lies of the devil himself as you just have.
For you too are a tool and desire to serve your master the devil. He manifest the very suffering and lies he spoke to you. But you deem his lies the truth much as Eve did and thereby took mankind down the dark path we are on.
I adjure you to reconsider your words and repent. If you are elect you will and if not you won't. But until you know for truth your path this is your moment of distinction. Ask God and see if you are fine China or a toilet, for when judgement comes you will have no excuse; free will or not.
Question? Yes I question. But my answers come from the Bible and they are here for you know to examine as you are predisposed too or not. Peace.
Jesse Pagan's original post:
The whole concept of sin and salvation is such bs. If Genesis is true, sin is something that god did to us, not something we chose. If you pay attention, Adam and Eve never had free will - only the illusion of free will. If god is truly all knowing, then he knew how the temptation in the garden would play out all along. If everything was predestined, then Adam and Eve never actually had any choices - they were just acting out a script that was already written for them. It's all very sadistic, like being in an abusive relationship. The only protagonist in Genesis was the serpent and god is the biggest sinner in the bible. But, that's how scams work. Sin is an imaginary disease that was invented to sell you a magical cure. Why would you buy this crap If you weren't convinced that you needed it? Why would the victim in an abusive marriage stay with their abuser if they didn't think they needed them, or that they somehow deserved it? You won't understand, though - the bible stories aren't designed to be questioned, because they don't hold up under analytical thought. They are designed to be believed without question in order to sell you something.
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